How To Clean Out Tumbler Solution Sludge
| gnuuser Member since Baronial 2019 | Post past gnuuser on Aug 4, 2019 9:00:47 GMT -5Hullo, all. I have a question nearly preventing sludge at the bottom of barrels. Why it happens is something of a mystery to me. I e'er make sure that I put water in the barrels before adding grit to make sure that I'k not washing the grit to the bottom of the barrel. Then, I quickly close the barrel and rush it over to the tumbler and put information technology on immediately. I rarely pull the barrels off the machine, merely if I do, I lay them on their sides. However, every now and then, I get a failed tumble with all of the grit compacted at the bottom of the barrel. This happened to me this week. I opened ii barrels, expecting a nice slurry, and both barrels had compacted dust in the bottom of the butt. So, I threw it all out and started over, this fourth dimension shaking the barrels madly as I rushed over to the tumbler. Is there some magical incantation I need to chant during the process to forestall this from happening? |
| captbob St. Pete FL Member since December 2007 | Mail service by captbob on Aug 4, 2019 10:40:51 GMT -5*sigh* - but information technology is a good and reasonable question. In that location is no "compacted sludge at the bottom of the barrel" when you are running the barrel. That "compacted sludge" gets there when you terminate your run and set the butt upright to open up the chapeau. ETA: Welcome to the forum! (really was a skilful question, just not the result you might believe information technology is.) |
| Last Edit: Aug four, 2019 ten:43:02 GMT -5 by captbob Dogs are unlimited lines of joyful credit with a payment that comes due all at once. |
| gnuuser Member since Baronial 2019 | Post past gnuuser on Aug iv, 2019 11:24:31 GMT -5CaptBob, Cheers very much for your reply. The reason I'm and so confused is that I don't remember touching any of my barrels all calendar week. I certainly didn't open whatsoever of them all week. Only, if that's the simply mode this can happen, I must accept washed something with them. I know that standing them upwardly could cause this, but didn't realize that it could happen virtually instantly. |
| gnuuser Fellow member since August 2019 | Post by gnuuser on Aug 4, 2019 xi:31:33 GMT -fiveBy they mode, I should probably clarify that the sludge in this case was mostly unused fibroid grit. Information technology was obvious that this happened very early on in the calendar week. When this has happened before, at that place was more sludge and the the grit was worn downwardly, and so it was clear that it was working until I messed with the barrels. In this case, I couldn't figure out what happened. |
| captbob St. Pete FL Member since December 2007 | Postal service by captbob on Aug 4, 2019 eleven:39:24 GMT -5No sir, fibroid grit tin can remain coarse much longer than a week. I really doubt that y'all did anything incorrect. This build up at the bottom simply happens when you ready the barrel on end. In a quickness! No demand to toss that grit out, use it again if it is all the same expert. Tumbling is a learning experience for sure and you will see that the first thing that yous should do is toss any instruction books in the trash! You'll get information technology!! |
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| gatorflash1 Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18 Fellow member since Oct 2018 | Mail by gatorflash1 on Aug 4, 2019 eleven:43:31 GMT -5I probably have a bunch of impaired questions here but I'll inquire you anyway. Are you lot using the proper amount of dust, or are you overloading it? That would exist an easy trouble to solve. Are you using tumbling media like ceramics to go on the brew stirred upwards? That would be some other easy problem to solve? Are you lot using any sugar, etc. with your batch that might cause this? Y'all might try adding a spoon of Ivory soap flakes. Are you waiting long enough to requite the grit fourth dimension to do it'southward work? Piece of cake problem to fix. I employ xxx or sixty course grit for my pace i and will let it tumble for 2 or three weeks to be sure it is well broken downward and has done it's piece of work. I don't know if y'all are giving the tumbler enough time to work. Just some impaired questions. I hope you find the solution and if you do you permit us know what it was. |
| Concluding Edit: Aug 4, 2019 11:53:16 GMT -5 by gatorflash1 |
Post by oldschoolrocker on Aug 4, 2019 11:44:09 GMT -fiveI disagree with Captbob near this being a settling issue versus a compacting issue. I had this happen recently 2 different times and both after a full week of running. It was obvious that the grit hadn't settled after taking off the tumbler because I had done pre grinding on some rocks and the stones were but as rough equally earlier. There was no slurry to speak of and In another butt that it happened with was a batch of stones close to moving onto side by side phase simply after week of tumbling the surface of stones was rough to bear upon where previously smooth. Both times I was breaking in some pocket-sized ceramics and bad filled barrel by first putting all ceramics in barrel, then rocks, grit and water . Both times the dust was stuck at bottom with majority of ceramics stuck with it. After second fourth dimension this happened I refilled barrel with same load of rocks and ceramics as before but loaded ceramics last and used same amt of dust and water. This fourth dimension I added water showtime and then dust. Checked barrel later on v days instead of vii and had no issue and virtually full grit breakdown. It merely simply couldnt have been an issue of grit settlement after removing barrel from tumbler equally I uses exact same amt of everything and only changed how I loaded butt. And after shorter run time than when had issue I had full breakdown of grit and nix compacting. | |
| captbob St. Pete FL Member since December 2007 | Post by captbob on Aug iv, 2019 12:05:13 GMT -5okay... now I'm curious how this compacted/settled dust (or whatsoever you desire to telephone call it) could course on the "lesser" of a running tumbler. When running, the bottom is a side wall of the interior of the butt. Maybe I don't sympathize physics or gravity so well, but how does this concoction accumulate on the side wall of a moving barrel? Accept you ever had it happen on the lid finish? Where when you open the barrel there is this mass of grit/ceramics on the top rather than the bottom, or is information technology always on the lesser? Even misloading the barrel and adding the water subsequently the dust instead of before shouldn't outcome in such a mass of dust being stuck to the bottom. But, I could be wrong, I'm kinda new to this tumbling stuff ... |
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| gnuuser Member since Baronial 2019 | Mail service by gnuuser on Aug four, 2019 12:21:04 GMT -five I probably have a agglomeration of dumb questions here but I'll ask you anyway. Are yous using the proper amount of dust, or are you overloading information technology? That would be an easy problem to solve. Are you using tumbling media similar ceramics to keep the brew stirred upward? That would be another easy problem to solve? Are you using any carbohydrate, etc. with your batch that might cause this? You might try adding a spoon of Ivory soap flakes. Are you lot waiting long enough to give the grit fourth dimension to do it's work? Easy problem to fix. GatorFlash1, I utilize two tablespoons of grit per pound of rocks. Sometimes I use ceramic media, if I don't have plenty pocket-size stuff to put in. I don't use annihilation only dust and h2o except when washing rocks/barrels in preparation for polishing. 9 out of 10 tries, everything turns out just fine, but 1 out of 10 tries, I unexpectedly go this cement-on-the-bottom of the barrel thing. It must exist what CaptBob says. He's right... information technology never happens at the chapeau end, so I MUST be standing them up at some bespeak and not realizing it. The only other thing I've found is that information technology happens if I put grit in offset, and wash it down with water. It causes the cement thing every time. It'southward the times like this when I do all the correct things and it happens anyway that I can't effigy out! |
Mail by rockpickerforever on Aug 4, 2019 13:04:28 GMT -5 I disagree with Captbob almost this being a settling issue versus a compacting issue. I had this happen recently 2 different times and both after a full week of running. It was obvious that the dust hadn't settled after taking off the tumbler because I had done pre grinding on some rocks and the stones were just as rough as before. There was no slurry to speak of and In another butt that it happened with was a batch of stones shut to moving onto next stage merely later on week of tumbling the surface of stones was rough to affect where previously smooth. Both times I was breaking in some small ceramics and bad filled barrel by first putting all ceramics in barrel, then rocks, dust and water . Both times the dust was stuck at bottom with majority of ceramics stuck with information technology. After 2d time this happened I refilled barrel with same load of rocks and ceramics as before simply loaded ceramics concluding and used same amt of grit and water. This fourth dimension I added water first and and so grit. Checked barrel after five days instead of vii and had no issue and almost full grit breakdown. It simply just couldnt have been an issue of dust settlement later on removing barrel from tumbler every bit I uses exact aforementioned amt of everything and just changed how I loaded barrel. And after shorter run time than when had issue I had total breakup of grit and nix compacting. I have NEVER had this happen to me, and I am non item when loading grit and h2o. I do mensurate the grit out, but non the h2o. I merely pour that right in after the dust, and fill until it is at the he proper level. Of form, I only use my rotary tumbler for fibroid grit (30), and I go on to add more than every few days, refreshing it with sharp dust. Never had a compaction problem, or unused grit it the bottom of the barrel. I allow it run a week or 3 to let it pause down to a fine powder. A adept launder, to remove whatsoever larger pieces still stuck in holes, then on to finer grit and shine in the vibe. Just my two cents. | |
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Mail by oldschoolrocker on Aug 4, 2019 xiii:49:29 GMT -5 okay... now I'm curious how this compacted/settled dust (or whatever y'all desire to call information technology) could form on the "bottom" of a running tumbler. When running, the bottom is a side wall of the interior of the barrel. Perhaps I don't understand physics or gravity so well, only how does this batter accumulate on the side wall of a moving barrel? Have y'all ever had it happen on the lid terminate? Where when you open the barrel there is this mass of grit/ceramics on the top rather than the lesser, or is information technology ever on the lesser? Even misloading the butt and adding the water after the dust instead of before shouldn't result in such a mass of grit being stuck to the bottom. But, I could be wrong, I'm kinda new to this tumbling stuff ... I agree that it doesnt make sense but information technology also doesnt make sense that subsequently a total week of tumbling that 90-95% of the grit would remain unused, rocks roughed up and no slurry to course. Deceit speak to information technology forming on the lid as it'southward impossible to load a butt in such a manner. I but apply 1 tbsp per pound of rock and this was in a 3lb lortone butt. I hands had 2.5 tblspoons of unused grit. And the rocks all had a rougher experience as tho rocks were only tumbling effectually together without grit. If yous were to run an experiment the the barrel tumbling would be the abiding and the contents of butt and loading of barrel would be the variables. Simply when running identical amts of grit, rock and water the variable would be the loading of the barrel. When I did so with the only variable being the loading of the barrel the effect was unlike which would led me to my conclusion. Anyhow,im Non trying to bear witness anyone wrong and not smart plenty to speak to the science attribute of my conclusion. Only going off my personal experience in hope to shed light on potential cause of issue. | |
Mail by oldschoolrocker on Aug iv, 2019 13:58:49 GMT -5 I probably have a bunch of dumb questions here simply I'll inquire you anyway. Are you lot using the proper amount of grit, or are you overloading it? That would be an like shooting fish in a barrel trouble to solve. Are y'all using tumbling media like ceramics to keep the mash stirred up? That would be some other piece of cake trouble to solve? Are you using whatever sugar, etc. with your batch that might crusade this? You lot might try calculation a spoon of Ivory soap flakes. Are you waiting long enough to give the grit fourth dimension to do it'southward work? Easy problem to ready. GatorFlash1, I use 2 tablespoons of grit per pound of rocks. Sometimes I use ceramic media, if I don't have enough small stuff to put in. I don't use anything simply grit and water except when washing rocks/barrels in preparation for polishing. ix out of ten tries, everything turns out just fine, but ane out of x tries, I unexpectedly become this cement-on-the-bottom of the barrel affair. It must be what CaptBob says. He's right... information technology never happens at the lid end, and so I MUST be standing them up at some indicate and not realizing information technology. The only other thing I've plant is that it happens if I put grit in first, and wash it down with water. Information technology causes the cement affair every fourth dimension. Information technology's the times similar this when I practice all the right things and it happens anyway that I can't figure out! If has nothing to do with how barrel is loaded then continuing the barrel up anytime between start and end would have no negative effect, only later on completed would information technology make deviation. Yous say that information technology happens everytime you lot add dust earlier water, that would make me assume it has to do with loading of barrel. | |
Postal service by oldschoolrocker on Aug 4, 2019 xiv:11:11 GMT -5 I disagree with Captbob about this being a settling issue versus a compacting event. I had this happen recently 2 different times and both afterward a full week of running. It was obvious that the grit hadn't settled after taking off the tumbler because I had done pre grinding on some rocks and the stones were merely every bit rough every bit before. There was no slurry to speak of and In another barrel that it happened with was a batch of stones shut to moving onto next stage merely after week of tumbling the surface of stones was rough to affect where previously polish. Both times I was breaking in some small ceramics and bad filled butt by start putting all ceramics in barrel, then rocks, dust and water . Both times the grit was stuck at bottom with bulk of ceramics stuck with it. Later second time this happened I refilled barrel with same load of rocks and ceramics as earlier but loaded ceramics final and used aforementioned amt of grit and water. This time I added h2o kickoff and and then dust. Checked barrel after v days instead of vii and had no outcome and about full dust breakup. Information technology simply simply couldnt have been an issue of grit settlement after removing butt from tumbler as I uses exact same amt of everything and simply changed how I loaded barrel. And later on shorter run fourth dimension than when had issue I had full breakdown of grit and zero compacting. I accept NEVER had this happen to me, and I am non particular when loading dust and water. I do measure the dust out, but non the water. I just pour that right in after the grit, and fill until it is at the he proper level. Of class, I only utilize my rotary tumbler for coarse grit (xxx), and I continue to add more every few days, refreshing it with sharp grit. Never had a compaction problem, or unused grit it the bottom of the butt. I allow it run a week or three to let it intermission downwards to a fine pulverisation. A good wash, to remove any larger pieces all the same stuck in holes, and so on to finer grit and shine in the vibe. Just my ii cents. I never used to pay attention to how I loaded the barrel before and the first time it happened I had no idea why. I simply thought nigh it Later on the 2nd time considering I specifically put the ceramics in the empty barrel before loading it with rocks bc they were new and going to be used in lot o tumbler so I wouldnt forget to add them in to mix. When I saw that it was all the ceramics and grit at bottom that was the only matter I could come up upward with to attempt and change so didnt happen again. Figured that given how picayune space there is between a pile of same small size ceramics that the fibroid dust filled the small spaces not leaving whatever infinite betwixt, water wasnt sufficiently able to penetrate through the layer to mix it up and tumbling of barrel helped to hold it in identify. Merely I accept no idea how fact based that thinking is | |
Post by oldschoolrocker on Aug 4, 2019 14:32:12 GMT -5Captbob, if the crusade of issue were to be how the barrel contents were loaded and then the accumulation of grit would be happening before placing on tumbler. A 3lb barrel is only 4inches diameter and spinning at 60rpms, a full rotation doesnt take but a second. The "cemented" grit does not easily wash out of the barrel when this happens, more than like has to be scooped out. And so if that's in bottom of a barrel when spinning 60rpms I would think its feasible that it would stay put. As information technology's not entirely on a side wall when butt is spinning. If the layer is say .5 or .75 inches thick then a portion of that layer would be spinning while the portion that'due south not would human activity every bit force against the portion spinning from tumbling and instead continue it stuck going round and round instead of tumbling like the rocks do. Wouldnt it be same principle as why barrels overfilled do not efficiently tumble rocks due to the lack of ability to rise and autumn over eachother. | |
| HankRocks Fellow member since July 2016 | Mail service by HankRocks on Aug 4, 2019 16:06:57 GMT -five Captbob, if the cause of issue were to exist how the butt contents were loaded then the aggregating of grit would be happening earlier placing on tumbler. A 3lb barrel is only 4inches diameter and spinning at 60rpms, a full rotation doesnt take but a 2nd. The "cemented" dust does not easily wash out of the butt when this happens, more similar has to be scooped out. So if that's in lesser of a barrel when spinning 60rpms I would think its feasible that it would stay put. As information technology'due south not entirely on a side wall when barrel is spinning. If the layer is say .5 or .75 inches thick then a portion of that layer would be spinning while the portion that'southward not would human action every bit force against the portion spinning from tumbling and instead keep it stuck going round and round instead of tumbling like the rocks exercise. Wouldnt it exist aforementioned principle as why barrels overfilled do not efficiently tumble rocks due to the lack of ability to rise and fall over eachother. Ok, I take emptied maybe 150 loads from the 1st phase in the last 4 years and I accept never had this issue. I always add the grit and slurry before the water. Y'all do seem to utilize a lot more grit per pound than I practise. For my fifteen pound barrel I usually add together about half-dozen or 7 tablespoons of grit and most 2 to two-one/2 cups of slurry. After 3 to 4 days depending on the blazon and shape of the rocks I do a re-accuse with maybe four-1/ii to 5 tablespoons of grit. After x to 12 days I do a clean out and almost e'er have a good slurry. The recharge allows me the opportunity to come across how the slurry is doing and to bank check information technology'southward level, adding or pouring off h2o/slurry as needed. If I set up the barrel on the demote and open it early in that location are still grit particles suspended and clinging to the rocks, slurry doing it'south job. Only curious how much slurry you are creating on a normal run, and the makeup of your load. For a well rounded material and a well balanced mixture of sizes the grit should breakdown and grind quicker than a load of jagged and not enough smalls load. At that place are not enough rock to rock contacts per rotation on the after to breakup and grind every bit quickly, much reduced slurry cosmos. I would be curious to run into a typical load of rocks you run in the first phase. |
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Post by oldschoolrocker on Aug 4, 2019 16:27:33 GMT -5 Captbob, if the crusade of issue were to be how the barrel contents were loaded then the accumulation of grit would be happening before placing on tumbler. A 3lb barrel is but 4inches diameter and spinning at 60rpms, a full rotation doesnt take but a second. The "cemented" grit does non easily wash out of the butt when this happens, more than like has to be scooped out. So if that's in lesser of a barrel when spinning 60rpms I would remember its viable that information technology would stay put. As information technology's not entirely on a side wall when barrel is spinning. If the layer is say .5 or .75 inches thick and then a portion of that layer would be spinning while the portion that'due south not would act as force against the portion spinning from tumbling and instead keep it stuck going round and round instead of tumbling similar the rocks practice. Wouldnt it be same principle as why barrels overfilled practise not efficiently tumble rocks due to the lack of ability to rise and fall over eachother. Ok, I take emptied maybe 150 loads from the 1st phase in the concluding 4 years and I have never had this issue. I always add the dust and slurry before the water. You do seem to use a lot more than grit per pound than I do. For my 15 pound barrel I usually add virtually 6 or 7 tablespoons of grit and about 2 to 2-1/two cups of slurry. After 3 to 4 days depending on the type and shape of the rocks I do a re-accuse with mayhap four-1/2 to five tablespoons of grit. After ten to 12 days I do a clean out and about e'er accept a expert slurry. The recharge allows me the opportunity to run across how the slurry is doing and to check it's level, adding or pouring off water/slurry every bit needed. If I set the barrel on the bench and open it early there are nevertheless grit particles suspended and clinging to the rocks, slurry doing it's job. Just curious how much slurry y'all are creating on a normal run, and the makeup of your load. For a well rounded cloth and a well balanced mixture of sizes the dust should breakdown and grind quicker than a load of jagged and not enough smalls load. There are not enough rock to rock contacts per rotation on the subsequently to breakup and grind every bit quickly, much reduced slurry creation. I would be curious to see a typical load of rocks you run in the first phase. I dont think it was solely the grit and and so water philharmonic that was the issue for mine. I recall information technology was the combo of bottom 3/4" inch of small-scale ceramics combined with grit that was the upshot. Also, there was almost no grit breakdown later on 7 days just with the exact same load of rocks, ceramics, grit and water just loaded differently I had almost full grit breakdown after 5 days. Next barrel load or empty I can take a pic just do make sure to mix sizes with probably 1/3 being minor ceramics( to round edges) and/or small gravel size rocks. And so other 2/3 in mix of size with a couple, at most, beingness bigger than 1-1.5 inches. Havent messed much with slurry thickeners aside from adding a tblspoon or two of used grit. But none used when had result. Slurry is on the thinner side normally but when this issue occured it was basically muddied water. When opened butt I could see what rocks were what as no slurry sticking to or covering the rocks. Grit usage is going off what I've read numerous places. But this is not the difference between also much dust or inefficient breakup. This is well-nigh no grit breakdown, rocks felt uniformly rough all over. They were practically smooth before batch started. And really, after v days rerun they were done and part of offset load I did in lot o. When I have a gratis barrel I am going to experiment and attempt to recreate the issue by loading barrel as I did earlier. If I am able to recreate the trouble then, at least for me, I will have my answer. | |
| gnuuser Member since August 2019 | Post past gnuuser on Aug iv, 2019 sixteen:39:22 GMT -vOldschoolrocker, What you're describing is exactly what happened to me this time. I loaded everything properly (or so I thought), put h2o in, put in my usual amount of grit (which usually works perfectly), ran it, didn't touch it all week, just at the end of the week I ended up with muddied water and a cement of unused grit and small stuff at the bottom of the barrel. Other times it has happened, I'thousand certain that I washed the grit to the bottom. And so, I think I'chiliad going to endeavour your method of loading large rocks first, then medium, then pocket-size, and so water, so grit. There have been some times where I did have a nice slurry going, just concluded up with a cement of sludge (compacted slurry with very little grit) and ceramics. In those cases, it obviously was working for several days, so I must have stood information technology up after the slurry formed. It must be that settling after loading is possible, as well. What confuses the heck out of me is why some people never experience this after years of tumbling, regardless of loading procedures, and some people (like me) seem to have this trouble fairly frequently, even while being as careful about it as possible. |
Post by oldschoolrocker on Aug four, 2019 16:56:06 GMT -five Oldschoolrocker, What you're describing is exactly what happened to me this time. I loaded everything properly (or so I idea), put water in, put in my usual corporeality of dust (which usually works perfectly), ran it, didn't impact information technology all week, but at the cease of the week I ended up with dirty water and a cement of unused dust and modest stuff at the bottom of the butt. Other times it has happened, I'one thousand certain that I done the grit to the bottom. So, I think I'm going to effort your method of loading big rocks start, then medium, then small, so h2o, then grit. There have been some times where I did have a nice slurry going, but concluded upwards with a cement of sludge (compacted slurry with very little grit) and ceramics. In those cases, it obviously was working for several days, so I must have stood it up after the slurry formed. Information technology must be that settling after loading is possible, every bit well. What confuses the heck out of me is why some people never experience this after years of tumbling, regardless of loading procedures, and some people (like me) seem to have this problem fairly frequently, even while being equally careful nearly it as possible. Hopefully information technology will help. And I hold that compacted slurry and smalls and maybe some unused grit at lesser is from settling when barrel is upright. I just dont see how dust could go whole calendar week and not have SOME dust breakdown. I definitely dont have the noesis many on here take so only going off my own experiences. Hopefully, regardless of why, we dont run into this consequence besides often as there is lilliputian that's more than frustrating to me than finding I wasted a whole calendar week basically washing the rocks | |
| gatorflash1 Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, ii Thumlers B's and a UV-eighteen Member since October 2018 | Mail service by gatorflash1 on Aug iv, 2019 21:49:04 GMT -5 I probably have a bunch of dumb questions here but I'll ask you anyway. Are you using the proper amount of grit, or are you overloading it? That would be an piece of cake trouble to solve. Are you using tumbling media like ceramics to keep the brew stirred up? That would be another like shooting fish in a barrel problem to solve? Are you using any sugar, etc. with your batch that might crusade this? You might try adding a spoon of Ivory soap flakes. Are yous waiting long plenty to requite the grit time to do it's piece of work? Easy problem to fix. GatorFlash1, I use 2 tablespoons of grit per pound of rocks. Sometimes I use ceramic media, if I don't have enough small-scale stuff to put in. I don't use annihilation but dust and water except when washing rocks/barrels in training for polishing. ix out of 10 tries, everything turns out just fine, but one out of 10 tries, I unexpectedly go this cement-on-the-bottom of the barrel thing. It must exist what CaptBob says. He's right... it never happens at the hat finish, so I MUST be continuing them upwardly at some point and not realizing it. The only other matter I've found is that it happens if I put grit in first, and wash it down with water. It causes the cement thing every fourth dimension. It'southward the times like this when I do all the right things and it happens anyway that I can't figure out! |
Source: https://forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/88390/preventing-compacted-sludge-bottom-barrel
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